help with ticket cost calculation

[wanted]

Apologies for this question but for someone not living in Milan the system appears a bit complicated to understand, like this page for instance: http://www.atm-mi.it/en/ViaggiaConNoi/B ... ativi.aspx
Maybe you can help?

I would like to know how much would a ticket cost from Novate Milanese to Milan metropolitan area, with two options:
- going via S1/S3 train
- via 89 bus line

What if I have one of those daily tickets, e.g. Two Day Ticket for € 8.25, or the MilanoCard, which allow unlimited travel within Milan? I understand I would have to buy some extension ticket to Novate Milanese, but for how much?

[luca]

Please, translate with Google.
Il mio inglese non è formidabile perciò scrivo in italiano dato che grazie a Google traduttore, potrete trovare questa informazione nella vostra lingua.
Credo di aver capito che voi state a Novate e dovete andare a Milano e muovervi in città.
Se voi prendere S1/S3 potete acquistare un biglietto Novate - Milano tutte le stazioni, valido 3 h dopo la convalida per viaggiare fra Novate e Milano e muoversi in città solo con i treni, quindi sui 4 principali corridoi urbani (passante, cintura sud, cintura nord, Garibaldi - Monza e stazione centrale - Rogoredo.
Acquistando un biglietto atm potrete utilizzare l'83 e qualsiasi mezzo in città entro 90'. Se dovete girare per Milano, vi consiglio però di prendere un biglietto per il mezzo più comodo per raggiungere Milano e da li un biglietto giornaliero urbano che vi consente di viaggiare liberamente con tutti i mezzi in ambito urbano per 24 ore. Attenzione perché ad agosto la linea S1 non effettua servizio fra Milano Bovisa e Saronno, da Novate quindi circolazione solo la linea S3, in ogni caso consigliabile per raggiungere il centro in fretta scendendo a Milano Cadorna, capolinea

[max90]

To use S1/S3 trains, you can buy a railway ticket at the train station of Novate Milanese. It costs 1.80€, and it's valid for only one travel. You can find more informations about S1/S3 trains on http://www.trenord.it/EN/

Attention: S1 service is suspended until 31th August. Only S3 service is active, with a train for Milano Cadorna every 30 minutes for all the day.

[wanted]

Grazie, luca e MAX90.

Lei ha citato la 24h (o 48h) biglietto. La mia domanda era esattamente se è possibile acquistare qualche estensione di questo biglietto giornaliero o MilanoCard, che consentirebbe un singolo o intera giornata di viaggio da / a Novate Milanese?

=====

Thanks, luca and max90.

You mentioned the 24h (or 48h) ticket. My question was exactly if it's possible to buy some extension to this daily ticket or MilanoCard, which would allow a single or full day travel from/to Novate Milanese?

[luca]

Sinceramente non lo so

[serie1928]

Hi Wanted, your problem has no solution, or many.
If You have a 24/48h pass, or MilanoCard You cannot purchase any extension which is also valid for the same time. You have to purchase for every travel a single ticket.
Common rule to remeber: trains have a different fare system than buses, trams and metro. With one exeption: within the Milan city limits all tickets and passes issued in "urban fare" allow You to use every mean of transport (no taxi, no long distance buses and trains). This means also that if You get out of Milan You have to consider how You want to do it.
By train: you have to purchase a ticket to Novate Milanese, and vv., for € 1,80 and validate it at the station where You get onto the train. You may do this at any station within the Milan city limits. If You expect to travel up to 10 times, there is a "10 journey ticket" for €16,50. It can be used only by one person.
By bus: you have to purchase an "interurban ticket 1 zone" for € 1,60, to be validated on the bus just before leaving Milan or when You get on the bus in the opposite direction.
If You travel once in and return, this is the most convenient solution, if you have the MilanCard.

On the other hand there are different day-passes You may take in consideration:
"Small area day-pass": costs € 5,80 and allows you to travel as much as You will from Novate to Milan and vv but using only the bus. Second rule to remember: daily-passes are all comprehensive of the already mentioned "urban fare", with it's freedom to ride almost everything in Milan. Please note: You can use it from validation until end of service (aprox. 04.00 am of the following day). It is not a 24h-around-the-clock ticket, like the 24h-pass.
If You don't take the MilanCard, and give up using trains out of Milan, this is the most convenient solution.
"Great area day-pass Expo": costs € 10,00, works like the "small area" but with a wider range and it allows to use also trains. It's only available during Expo-time.
"Io viaggio ovunque day pass" (this pass can be issued even for 2 or 3 days): costs €16,00 and allows You to travel within the whole region Lombardy, using everything but long distance trains.

Please note: if You purchase the 48h-pass at € 8,25 and you travel 4 times from Novate an d back, then You have spent at least € 14,65. Two "small area day passes" will cost € 11,60. In Your situation I wont purchase a 24h/48h ticket.

[wanted]

serie1928: what a great deal of information there, huge thanks for your effort and detailed description.

Indeed it seems like the bus is a better option than the train.

I think an option with 3 day MilanoCard (we're coming for 3 days) for 13 EUR, plus 6 single bus tickets would be quite OK -- 22,6 EUR.

Three small area day passes would cost 17.4 EUR, which is a bit cheaper but without the discounts provided by MilanoCard.

[GLM]

I think it should be better to buy train ticket and get to Milan by train: only 20cent more for each trip, but faster and more confortable.
PS: bus 89 runs till 9pm, trains till midnight

[luca]

And S3 trains going to city centre

[max90]

Wanted, you can also consider to buy the ticket "io viaggio ovunque in Lombardia"; it is available in various types (1, 2, 3 or 7 days), and allows you to travel on almost all public transports (Malpensa Express is not included) in Lombardia. Metro, bus, tram, trains of regional service are all included.
Prices are:
- one day ticket: 16.00€
- two days ticket: 27.00€
- three days ticket: 32.50€
- seven days ticket: 43.00€
You can buy this tickets on railway stations, or in the metro stations of Milan. Their validity begin from the first travel you do. Remember to validate these tickets.
More informations are available here... but unfortunately only in italian. http://www.trasporti.regione.lombardia. ... INFWrapper

[Federico_2]

However, you can easily find any kind of information about "io viaggio ovunque in lombardia" (one or multi-day passes) here, in English of course:

http://www.trenord.it/en/tickets/ticket-day-passes.aspx

[Lucio Chiappetti]

Apologies for this question but for someone not living in Milan the system appears a bit complicated to understand

Sorry because I did not see your message before. I agree with you that the fare system is not user-friendly, in particular the integration between different operators on single fares is poor. It might be better on season cards (abbonamenti).

You do not tell us how long are you staying and what are you planning to use public transport for. Also why did you choose to stay in Novate and not inside Milan.

You should understand that the "surface lines" (trams, buses, trolleybuses) and the underground (metro, M1/2/3/5) are operated by ATM, while regional railways (including all the S lines) are operated by Trenord.

ATM and other bus operators have a sort-of coordinated fare system called SITAM, which is based on a zone system. The urban area (municipal area of the Comune of Milan) is somewhat special. Most fare arrangements (special deals like the carnet of 10 tickets, some magnetic card or smartphone arrangements) cover only the urban area.
Tickets outside of the urban area fall in two categories, interurban and cumulative. Interurban are used to travel outside the urban area, or allow entering Milan up to a stop in the outer ring, outside of the 90/91 circular trolleybus route. Cumulative add to that the possibility of travelling on all ATM lines inside Milan.

Trenord uses a kilometric fare system. A ticket with destination in Milan allows to reach any train station in Milan. So if you come from Novate you can go to the centre up to Cadorna, but if you change in Bovisa you can take all other S lines of the so-called "Passante". But you have to pay an urban ticket to access ATM metro, trams and buses. This is different if you have a season card of the TrenoMilano series (this essentially adds an urban ATM season card to the railway one).

If you have an ATM ticket you can travel also on railway lines (S and R/RE trains) inside the urban area, but the reverse is not true. And with an urban ATM ticket you cannot go outside the urban area, neither by metro nor by train.

Usage of ATM and railways is allowed only with the regional cards called IVOP (I-travel-everywhere-in-my-Province) and IVOL (I-travel-everywhere-in-Lombardy). Unfortunately IVOP exists only for season cards, while IVOL exists both for season cards, and as 1-2-etc. day passes. But the 1-day IVOL costs 16 euro, which is good if you do a day trip of about 100km, but it is expensive compared to local day passes.

if you came for EXPO you may check this special arrangement which could cover also extraurban trains
http://www.atm.it/en/ViaggiaConNoi/Bigl ... Fiera.aspx

Sorry for not being able of providing more help (I live inside Milan, and my occasional problem is to save when I travel outside, not the reverse !)

[wanted]

Hi Lucio,

Thanks for the informative reply.

You're right that my original post lacked some details which could narrow down the options.

We're coming to Milan for 3 days (weekend) as a group of 8 adults. We chose to stay in Novate because there was in fact little choice of reasonably priced and good appartments for 8 people within Milan urban area. In Novate I found an ideal appartment close to the train station. I realize this will increase the cost of travel, but for three days it should be acceptable and the accomodation is also important.

It is just a typical touristic stay, so we'll probably leave the appartment in the morning, visit some interesting places in Milan and go back in the evening.

[Lucio Chiappetti]

You should also tell us or consider how and when are you coming.

About "when" you already said during a weekend, so the only variant is "during Expo" or "after Expo closure" (in the former case, even if you do not plan to visit Expo, you can take advantage of the special day tickets).

About "how", I mean whether you come by car, train or plane, and at which airport. Namely to check whether your transfer from the point of arrival to Novate, and from Novate to the point of departure can be covered by the same sort of ticket you use to travel. Rail stations and Linate airport are inside/at the edge of the urban area, Malpensa airport instead is not covered even by the IVOL tickets (check whether some of the special Expo deals include it).

You also say you will be 8 people. Unfortunately the new form of the carnet (booklet of 10 ATM tickets) is on magnetic support, so it can be used simultaneously by 1 person only (the old paper carnet allowed simultaneous validation by more people travelling together). Check however about carnets from Trenord (to cover the train stretch from Novate to first station in Milan).

If you plan just to see places in Milan, I would say that, depending on your walking capabilities, a plain train ticket from Novate plus a day ticket, or just a plain train ticket will suffice (*). There hardly anything worth visiting in the immediate outskirts of Milan. If instead you plan to see places outside of Milan (e.g. Certosa di Pavia, Bergamo, lake Como or Maggiore) then an IVOL 1/2/3 day pass may be convenient (note however that if you plan to sail the lakes they are not covered by IVOL, except lake Iseo which is however far and less interesting).

(*) if you plan to visit things in the centre of Milano and you are not tired by walking just take the train straight to Cadorna and walk. Or change in Bovisa to a train of the Passante if that takes you closer to where you want to go (but it runs somehow outside the centre). If you want to see things outside the centre or do not like to walk buy also an ATM day ticket. I cannot imagine many places outside of the city centre (perhaps the abbey of Chiaravalle, or shopping in corso Buenos Aires, or going to the Central station ... which despite its name is not in the centre).

If you want further hints (and have time to wait) just enquire.

[wanted]

About the way to Milan, we're flying into Bergamo airport, but I think I figured out the most optimal way from there -- correct me if there's something better. We're coming in the beginning of October.

I plan to buy a 3-day MilanoCard which gives a discount for some buses from Orio al Serio to Milan Central Station and unlimited transport within Milan. From there take the metro to Cadorna train station and then via S3 train to Novate.

Regarding EXPO -- we'd like to see it, probably the evening option as the ticket price is much more acceptable at this time. Maybe we'll also take a look at Bergamo for a while, after arrival or just before departure. Other than that, we don't plan to visit anything outside Milan urban area.